Does the Sinner’s Prayer Save?

There are thousands of Christian churches out there. There are thousands claiming they can get you into heaven. There are thousands of gospels out there.

But the bible says there is only one gospel.

There just cannot be thousands of different gospel messages and they all be right. The truth is getting it right means everything.

It is possible to have different gospels.

Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of gospel than the one we preached to you. I say again what we have said before: If anyone preaches any other gospel than the one you welcomed, let that person be cursed. Gal 1:8-9

It is possible to be fooled.

You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ. Gal 1: 6-7

So what does that mean for the sinner’s prayer?

I have a confession. I didn’t even know what the sinner’s prayer was until my kids (who have a broad exposure to doctrine) told me about it.

I started observing. I started inquiring. I started studying.

Here’s what I found. There isn’t one specific sinner’s prayer. The idea is that you pray a scripted prayer and ask Jesus into your heart. It goes something like this:

“Jesus, I now realize I have sinned against you. Please forgive me of my sin. Please come into my life and change my heart. I want you to be my Savior. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.”

Then a pastor assures the sinner that she is now a Christian and saved.

Now we are talking about salvation here, like saved from HELL stuff. And since it’s possible to be fooled and it is possible to pervert the one gospel and that will result in God’s curse, I do not want to get this one gospel wrong. I don’t want to go to hell. I want salvation. I want to be saved.

So the question I have to ask myself is “Is the sinner’s prayer the one gospel?”

Let’s find out.

Paul, the most prolific teacher in the New Testament said:

The gospel comes from Jesus.

Dear brothers and sisters, I want you to understand that the gospel message I preach is not based on mere human reasoning. I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ. Gal 1: 11-12

The gospel of Paul didn’t come from any man. It came straight from the source, Jesus. I couldn’t find it or anything like it anywhere in the teachings of Jesus.

So where did it come from?

Turns out it started 500 years ago through the Puritan movement. Over a couple hundred years teachers like John Flavel, Thomas Boston and Benjamin Colman all encouraged their followers to receive Christ into their heart. That message evolved and was popularized by Billy Graham during the Christian crusades of the 1950’s. Millions of people were told, something like, “Pray this. Be saved.”

The facts are this: The sinner’s prayer did not originate with Jesus. It didn’t come from apostles. It is no where in the bible.

So how can a Christian message of salvation have no direct connection to Christ or the early Christian church or the Christian Bible?

It can’t.

So what was the gospel that Paul preached?

Faith

We know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law. Gal 2:14-15

Grace

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless… Gal. 2:20-21

Baptism

And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes...And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you. Gal 3:27-29

Let’s be people of the book.

Let’s check our facts.

Let’s not get the gospel of Jesus Christ wrong.

(Read the letter to the Galatian church in it’s entirety here).

You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. – The Apostle Paul

Nov 15, 2015Serena

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Comments: 64

Mark
9 years ago
Actually, Paul says that the gospel does not include baptism:

“For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel” 1Cor 1:17

Paul says that a person is saved when they hear the gospel and believe it:

“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise” Eph 1:13

and:

“if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” – Romans 10:9

The baptism Paul talks about is a baptism by the Holy Spirit. It is not a physical baptism

“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” 1Cor 12:12
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- David
  9 years ago
  Mark, you need to read the context of I Corinthians 1 — his point is not that baptism is not essential, but that men were following other men and therefore creating division (1:10-16; see chapter 3). He didn’t go to Corinth to do the actual baptizing, but to preach the gospel — which includes baptism. In fact he says, he did baptize someEphesians and Romans were written to Christians, not people who had not already been baptized. Romans 6, for example — can you die to Christ, be united with him and “raised to walk in newness of life” without baptism? Paul ties those together. Peter says flatly, “Baptism now saves you… ” (I Peter 3:21). Yet, there is not one passage that ever says or suggests that we can “pray for salvation,” or “accept Jesus into your heart” to be saved. I Corinthians 12 could be talking about baptism in the Spirit (I don’t think it is), but it’s not possible that Acts 2:38 is talking about baptism in or by the Spirit because we receive the gift of the Spirit in baptism. Baptism in water was a common practice in those days; John the Baptist baptized (John 3:23 says he baptized in Aenon, near Salim “because there was much water there”). It’s pretty hard to read the New Testament and not come away with the understanding that baptism was taught as part and parcel of the gospel (see Acts 2:38-47). In Acts 8, when Philip was “preaching Jesus” (i.e., “the gospel”) to the Eunuch, what caused the Eunuch to say, “see here is water; what hinders me from being baptized?” (8:34-38). The logical conclusion is that Phillip taught baptism as part of the gospel.
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- Kim Huliganga
  9 years ago
  Your use of 1 Corinthians 1 is wrong, unfortunately. There, Paul is saying that he is glad that he had not baptized most of them himself (they were all mostly baptized by someone else), except Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanus. This is because the church[es] of Corinth at the time were divided, saying that Peter was greatest, Christ was greatest, Apollos was greatest. They were all prideful and would have included Paul’s name–besmirching his name along with the others. Paul isn’t saying that he’s glad that they weren’t baptized, because they were. He calls them “brothers” in some translations, and “brethren”. Also, this is a letter to believers, not unbelievers. The overall implication is that this is a letter to already baptized Christians who need his help.
  
  Your use of Romans 10:9 is also wrong, unfortunately. Paul is talking to Christians in Rome who listen to judaizers who say that “before you [Gentiles] can become a Christian, you must first become a Jew”. They say this because they do believe in Jesus, but that the grace belongs to the nation of Israel. They forgot that the nation of Israel was given the chance to be God’s people first only because they were supposed to spread the name of God to the whole world, not because God shows favouritism. Anyways, they thought that for the Gentiles to join the church, they had to be circumcised and follow the Law of Moses and the Mishnah (which the Jews considered to be more authoritative than the Law of Moses because to them it was like a hedge that protected you from breaking the law–“if you don’t break the mishnah, it will be impossible for you to break the law” was their chief belief”. Anyways, Paul here is asking the Christians of Rome to not follow the letter of the law, but the Spirit of the law–BELIEVE! And everything will follow. Therefore, Paul isn’t saying that there is a spiritual baptism or a physical one–there is only one type, which is physical, spiritual, symbolic, and emotional. Paul is saying that for them to get right with God, they can’t follow a law. Following a law to become righteous is legalistic. It is like saying “I’m going to donate money to the temple so that God owes ME!” or “God is in my debt because I didn’t do any work in during the Sabbath. The old testament law is impossible for anyone other than Christ to follow. That is why Paul wants the people to follow the spirit of the Law. Because the spirit of the law is what God wanted the people to follow in the first place, which is what the Jews and the Christian Judaizers ultimately failed to do.
  
  Your use of 1 Corinthians 12:12 implies that spirit baptism is the true baptism, but that is not true. There should be a higher importance in baptism of immersion. In Luke 3:22 the Spirit of God fell on Jesus after He was baptized. Peter, in a climactic speech, taught the Jews who KILLED Christ that they must repent AND be baptized in Jesus’ name for the forgiveness of their sin of unbelief. Only through this could they receive the Holy Spirit, which makes them more and more like Christ everyday. This is found in Acts 2:38.
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Mark
9 years ago
Hi David and Kim,

First of all, please forgive me if my first comment was abrupt and cold… I was in a hurry but that’s no excuse 🙂

I completely understand where you are coming from and you are absolutely right according to how you are reading the new testament. I want you to know that for the last 10 or so years I have been defending and promoting the water baptism gospel like you are and that my background is in the church of Christ.

However, in the last several months I have made a few discoveries that have changed my view on this issue. I had questions about whether my baptism was correct, whether I had truly repented before I was baptised, whether I should be baptised again, was I really saved I was thinking in my mind. Even though I am definitely a new creature in Christ 2Cor 5:17 I had these niggling doubts based on the water baptism gospel… Acts 2:38 etc. Repentance and baptism is a rocky foundation… it was a foundation based on my work and not on Christ and His work!

So I was praying to God asking Him if I needed to be baptised again and what I should do. Anyway, God showed me that Paul is the apostle to the gentiles (Acts 9:15 and Romans 11:13, 15:16) and we should be listening to him. A lot of the confusion today and disunity is because we are not rightly dividing the Word of God.

John the baptist was sent to baptise (John 1:31). The disciples were sent to baptise (Matthew 28:19). Our apostle was sent NOT TO baptise but to preach the gospel.

Paul and the twelve had different gospel’s and different audiences. I know that this may be hard to accept as it was for me… but it makes sense. This article explains it really well, please read it and make up your own mind: http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

God bless
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- David
  9 years ago
  While I couldn’t disagree with you more that there was another gospel (something Paul himself criticized in Gal. 1:6ff), Paul spoke often of baptism and connected it directly to being united with Christ (both of the replies to your comments cited several instances). This was the original assertion in the article; you didn’t really respond to that.
  
  As to the apostles never speaking of Christ dying for our sins, how do you explain John who said, when Jesus approached, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world” (John 1:29). Lamb = sacrifice; he died TO take away sins. Yet Mr. McGee says, “Decades later, near the end of their lives, Peter and John each wrote of the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:2-3, 18-21, 2:24, 5:12 and 1 John 1:7 and 2:2). However, in the early parts of Acts, they never mention the blood, sacrifice, propitiation, or that Jesus Christ died for our sins. It had not yet been revealed.” In fact, it’s even mentioned in the Old Testament, in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22, among other places.
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Mark
9 years ago
David,

You assume water in the places where Paul speaks of baptism. There are several different types of baptism in the bible. In 1Cor 12:13 Paul says we are baptised by one spirit into the body of Christ. That is a different baptism to the one John the baptist and the twelve were doing.

Re: The sinner’s prayer. I’m going with Paul:

“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise” Eph 1:13

If a person hears the message and believes it then they are saved.

In Luke 9:6 the twelve were sent preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. Yet in Luke 18:31-34 they hadn’t the slightest knowledge of the death, burial and resurrection gospel of 1cor 15. They were preaching a different gospel.. the gospel of the kingdom.

When they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was
committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter – Galatians 2 Paul is the apostle to the gentiles.
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- David
  9 years ago
  So, Mark, what is this “different” gospel? You’ve only quoted one passage in support of “baptism” in the spirit and that has nothing in common with the other passages that specifically speak about and identity baptism in the Spirit.
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Mark
9 years ago
David, what is the gospel?
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- David
  9 years ago
  My question, Mark, is very simple. You’re saying that Paul preached a “different” gospel. I would like to know what that “different” gospel is. Articulate it for me. If you can’t state what the gospel is and how it is different from what the Old Testament promised, what Jesus taught about himself and his work, what Peter and the apostles preached in Acts, then your point makes no sense. How did Paul’s gospel to the Gentiles differ from Paul’s gospel to the Jews? (He did preach to Jews not just to Gentiles — you’re aware of that, right?).
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  - Mark
    9 years ago
    David, did you read all of the article I linked to? if you did then you would know what the Paul’s gospel is
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David
9 years ago
No, I read enough of it to know his arguments do NOT make sense in light of New Testament teaching.

Even so, you never responded to the quote from him that I referenced and asked what, then, did John mean when he pointed to Jesus can called him “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”? Nor did you comment on the OT passages I cited or what the 4 gospels teach regarding the gospel.

I’m having this discussion with you, not with Mr. McGee. Can YOU tell me what the “new” or “different” gospel is? That’s a radical claim, you must admit. So, if it’s different, then you should be able to clearly state the difference because Paul said specifically that there is no “other” or “different” gospel (Gal. 1:6-9). Are you saying that before Paul came along that blood was not part of the gospel (read Exodus, John’s reference to Jesus as the Lamb)? Or sacrifice (read Hebrews)? Or propitiation (a reference to the mercy seat of the Old Testament). Or… what? What did Paul say was “new” and “different”? And what does this have to do with baptism when Paul said so clearly that baptism unites us with Christ and frees us from sin (Romans 6:3-7) and Peter said (in his later years) that “baptism now saves you…”?
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David
9 years ago
Just one other thing: you said if I read his lengthy article all the way through, I would know what Paul’s gospel is. I have read the Bible all the way through and I’ve read Paul’s writing all the way through and, therefore, I know what Paul’s gospel is. And, it’s the same as Peter’s and the other apostles and the same gospel the OT teaches. Paul would shudder to think that he was being accused of preaching a “different” gospel; “let him be anathema” was Paul’s way of putting it (Gal. 1:8-9).
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Mark
9 years ago
David,

I have already shown you that in Luke 9 Jesus sent out the twelve to preach the gospel which was “He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.” Yet in Luke 18:31-34 they hadn’t the slightest knowledge of the death, burial and resurrection gospel of 1cor 15. They were preaching a different gospel.. the gospel of the kingdom.

Is this the same gospel or not?
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- David
  9 years ago
  Yes, it was the same gospel. Of course it was; Jesus sent them; he’s the author and the center of that gospel. What they knew — or were able (or unable) has no bearing on what the gospel was. Look what Jesus told them — Luke 9:22 — “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.” Luke 18:31 — “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished.” Matthew 17:22-23 — As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men, 23 and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day.” And they were greatly distressed.” There are several similar passages. Jesus clearly taught the disciples that the gospel was his death, burial and resurrection. They hadn’t the “slightest knowledge?” They should have because Jesus clearly stated in several times.
  
  The gospel that was revealed to Paul by Jesus was the same gospel preached by Peter — “On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),” Gal. 2:7-8.
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Mark
9 years ago
David, you should read this http://doctrine.org/the-christian-myth/
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- David
  9 years ago
  Oh where he says, ” The Jews looked for an earthly kingdom and this is what John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Twelve proclaimed”? Jesus: “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36 — he said it twice).
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  - Mark
    9 years ago
    His Kingdom is not of this world but it will be a literal kingdom on earth one day! Praise God
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    - David
      9 years ago
      Moth to flame here; where does it say it’ll be a “literal kingdom here on earth”? Never says that.
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David
9 years ago
I ask this respectfully — Are you a student of the Bible or of stuff on the Internet?

The article you cite above says this: “Did Paul preach the same gospel as Peter and the Eleven? Not according to the Scriptures.” Paul said, “On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles)” Gal. 2:7-8.

Mark, who are you going to believe? Think about it. I’ll leave you with that; we hijacked this post to go way beyond what Serena wrote.
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- Mark
  9 years ago
  David, I am being a berean and checking everything. I hope you are checking what the coC is telling you! Gal2 proves the point. Paul was specially selected to go to the gentiles. Not the twelve! I ask again.. why did Jesus choose Paul when he already had the 12?
  
  Anyway, I hope to see you one day in heaven. God bless
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David
9 years ago
No, Mark — in fact, you know nothing about me or my background. I have, unlike you, supported every argument with Scripture while you have pointed to the doctrines of men. Yes, Paul was selected to go to the Gentiles; but the other apostles also preached Gentiles and Paul also preached to Jews. He chose Paul because of his zeal, his ability, etc. God certainly didn’t need to come up with someone to preach a different gospel — even one, as Mr. “Doctrine” argues — that Jesus didn’t preach. Seriously?? Christ preached a different “gospel of Christ” than Paul did?? Does that not bother you? It makes no sense. I hope you’ll go back and study all of the letter and read them in context along with what Jesus taught. It’s very clear to me that every writer — writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit — taught the same truth, the same gospel.
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- Mark
  9 years ago
  No David, Jesus doesn’t need anyone’s ability. I know your background from your profile and I know exactly where you are coming from since I have attended various coc’s over the last several years 🙂
  
  We must rightly divide the word 2Tim 2:15. Please read acts 2&3 and see what Peter was expecting to happen if national Israel repented. Then see that the body of Christ was mystery hidden from the apostles and given to Paul!
  
  Good day sir!
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  - David
    9 years ago
    …but my doctrine is not “COC” because there is no such thing. The church does not have a doctrine; only Jesus. We teach what the New Testament says, not the imaginations of men — again: you pointed me to men; I pointed you to Scriptures — I don’t think you directly addressed any of them. I’ll leave it at that.
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Jeff Dixon
9 years ago
Mark, I do hope that you may still be listening here, even though you said, Good day. 🙂
Please consider that both the conversions of gentiles in Acts included water baptism: the phillipian jailer and Cornelius and his household. They didn’t say, Oh wait, no, you’re a gentile so no water baptism for you!
Also, please note that Jesus said to go into all the world with THE gospel. All the world includes the gentiles, and THE gospel means there’s only one.
Please also consider that Paul is merely de-emphasizing who performed the baptism in Corinthians. Because whoever performed it is irrelevant, Christ is the one all are baptized into.
Finally, the concept that baptism is a work YOU perform is erroneous. In the phrase “be baptized” is the verb active or passive? It is passive, because the action is done to you, not one you do to yourself. Herein is the genius of God, for you do not baptize yourself, you submit to it being done to you.

Really hope this helps clarify things for you.
May God grant you clarity in these difficult times.
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- Mark
  9 years ago
  Hi Jeff, thanks for your input and kind words.
  
  One question, what must one do to be saved?
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  - David
    9 years ago
    I don’t know if this is just directed to Jeff, but I’ll go… your question, “what must one do to be saved,” has been asked and answered: Acts 2:37, “what shall we do.?” Peter responds, Acts 2:38, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins…”
    
    That’s good enough for me.
    
    The gospel is the good news of salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ (I Corinthians 15:3-4); it can be obeyed (Romans 6:17-18) and obedience to the gospel “sets free from sin” — that’s the same language used re: baptism in 6:7. That corresponds to I Peter 3:21, “Baptism now saves you…”
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    - Mark
      9 years ago
      Hi David, it was to Jeff but that’s fine 🙂 Thanks for the answer.
      
      In Acts 2 did Peter say that Christ died for their sins? i.e. did he preach the gospel 1cor15:3-4?
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      - David
        9 years ago
        Peter certainly did! He said Jesus was crucified and was raised (I Corinthians 15:3-4) and exalted to the right hand of God and he was made “both Lord and Christ, this Jesus…” (Acts 2:22-36). If that’s not the gospel, what is?
        
        This all fulfilled prophecy. Are you suggesting that Peter made a mistake when he told these people from all over the world (Acts 2:9-11) that baptism in the name of this same Jesus was for “forgiveness of sins”?
        
        This was same good news about Jesus that Philip preached (Acts 8), after which the people were baptized (8:12; 8:35ff.) and that Jesus spoke about when he instituted the Lord’s Supper (“for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins,” Mt 26:28). The same gospel that would be proclaimed from Jerusalem to all the nations “…and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Lk. 24:47).
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      - Mark
        9 years ago
        David, that’s not what I asked you. Again, did Peter say that Christ died for their sins? like the gospel that Paul preaches.
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      - David
        9 years ago
        It’s exactly the same as Paul preached. Tell me, specifically, how it’s different (please don’t refer me to a long, convoluted article; just put it in a few simple, as Peter did on the Day of Pentecost).
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      - Mark
        9 years ago
        It’s not exactly the same. Peter doesn’t mention Christ dying for their sins. Quite a thing to leave out! Peter didn’t make a mistake. We have to treat the word of God with extreme respect. Every jot and tiddle is there for a reason.
        
        This is a hint: you need to do some digging here. In acts 2&3 Peter does not preach the same gospel as Paul. Peter addresses the nation of Israel because they crucified their own Messiah. He says that if they repent and be baptised then they can still have their Messiah (Acts 3:20) (King and Kingdom). Israel is to be a KINGDOM of priests. Priests in the old testament had to be baptised…
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      - David
        9 years ago
        You’re not making any sense. The gospel to the Jews was the same to the Gentiles and vice versa; Paul makes that point in Romans 9-11. And just looking at Acts 2, why would Peter say “repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins” if what he had just preached had nothing to do with forgiveness of sins? Why didn’t he say (as you do) “repent and be baptized and receive your Messiah…” or words to that effect? He doesn’t say that; he says, “for forgiveness of sins” and this after describing his crucifixion, resurrection and ascension.
        
        In Acts 13, Paul address “Men of Israel”(v 16) and “sons of the family of Abraham” (v. 26) (not Gentiles) and says, “to us has been sent the message of this salvation.” What salvation? V. 32, “And we bring you this good news” (gospel). The gospel Paul preached in Acts 13 is identical to the gospel Peter preached in Acts 2. Read it (Acts 13:28-41). Tell me where it’s different.
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      - Mark
        9 years ago
        Does Peter tell them that Christ died for their sins? NO
        
        Does Paul say that of first importance is that Christ died for our sins? YES
        
        Simple.
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      - David
        9 years ago
        I notice you don’t usually answer questions; you just make statements. That makes in kind of hard to have a discussion.
        
        Did Peter say “Christ died for your sins”? Not with those exact words; but he says he died, was raised and was exalted and when they asked “what must we do?” he said they are to be baptized in HIS NAME for forgiveness of sins.” Why “forgiveness of sins” if the gospel he just preached didn’t provide for forgiveness of sins? And in 4:12 — to the Jews — he says that “there is salvation in no one else for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” What is the salvation Peter is talking about in 4:12? In Luke 24:45, the text says “he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures; then in v. 46, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and FORGIVENESS OF SINS should be proclaimed in his name to ALL nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” That’s exactly what Peter did— proclaimed FORGIVENESS OF SINS, IN JERUSALEM as recorded in Acts 2. Very simple.
        
        Your explanation is not simple; it requires jumping through many hoops. It is the gospel that is simple and applicable to all people everywhere: Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross and. He is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. In that statement, did John the Baptist tell the Jews that Jesus was dying for their sins or not? (You never answered that question).
        
        “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all bestowing his riches on all who call on him” (Rom 10:12). Yet, you insist on making a distinction.
        
        Do you think Jews were ignorant of Isaiah 53? There is no mention of the Messiah there, in so many words, but it does tell them that he died for our sins. Do you disagree with that? When Philip met the eunuch, the eunuch was reading Isaiah 53 and inquired about whom Isaiah was speaking. Philip, from that text, preached Jesus to him. The eunuch, seeing water, asked to be baptized (Acts 8:26-39).
        
        It’s very simple.
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      - Mark
        9 years ago
        David, I tried to start a discussion with you but you wouldn’t answer the first question.
        
        The “preaching of the cross” was the distinctive message of the Apostle Paul. It was the gospel he preached, that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). Paul’s gospel was faith + 0. Neither the Twelve nor the other writers of the New Testament preached this gospel until they learned about it from Paul. And, as a result, Paul’s gospel, his “preaching of the cross,” precipitated a great crisis among the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem that resulted in the Council of Jerusalem acts 15.
        
        Paul, the apostle of grace, the apostle of the Gentiles, revealed the significance of Christ’s crucifixion. His message and understanding of Christ’s crucifixion was in stark contrast to that of Peter. For Peter, Christ’s crucifixion was a message of accusation and condemnation–an act that required Jewish repentance before God could establish His earthly kingdom (Acts 2.36). But for Paul, Christ’s crucifixion was the message of salvation. It was not an event to be repented of but what he boasted (1 Corinthians 1.23, 2.2, 8; 2 Corinthians 13.4; Galatians 2.20, 3.1, 6.14). For Paul, Christ’s crucifixion and subsequent resurrection was Christ’s victory over sin and death.
        
        How did Paul learn the significance of Christ’s work on the cross? He learned it by direct revelation from the risen, glorified Christ. Paul is the one who taught redemption, propitiation, reconciliation, justification, the blood of Christ, etc. Paul’s gospel, that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead was a “secret” (Romans 16.25) God had kept. Paul declared that the gospel he preached was his gospel (Romans 2.16; 16.25; 2 Timothy 2.8; Galatians 2.2, 7; Galatians 1.11-12). Only much later, through Paul’s teaching, did Peter apprehend and write of the significance of Christ’s death on the cross (1 Peter 1.18-19; cf. 2 Peter 3.15-16).
        
        Finally, in acts 10 we see that the gentile Cornelius and his family were saved before baptism. Peter says in Acts 15 that their hearts were cleansed by faith. He doesn’t even mention water baptism.
        
        “And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.” Acts 15:8-9
        
        Water baptism was a jewish ordinance for consecrating priests. The whole of Israel will be a ‘Kingdom of priests’… which is why the whole of Israel was being baptised by John and then the twelve.
        
        The twelve were not preaching the same gospel as Paul since they didn’t know about Christ dying for sins until it was revealed to Paul.
        
        Please consider what I have said here. Works based salvation is a trap. Peace
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      - David
        9 years ago
        I believed I answered your first question and several others, though you avoided most of mine.
        
        In any case, you take that argument to judgment if you’re comfortable with it, as you seem to be. Obviously, you won’t be moved and that’s your prerogative. There are so many misstatements and mis-appropriations of Scripture in your comments (e.g., “mystery” is not a “secret” — Romans 16:25 — look it up), it would take much too long to answer each one.
        
        John the Baptist, long before Paul came along, said “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” You never responded to that.
        
        Oh, and by the way, not once did anyone here argue for a “works-based” salvation. That’s your private interpretation of what it means to be baptized — is “confession” a work? Is believing a work? Paul taught baptism as vigorously as Peter — read Romans 6; Gal. 3:26-27; Col. 2:11-13, etc.
        
        It’s interesting that you bring up Cornelius. He was taught by Peter that forgiveness of sins would come through Jesus. I assume you believe he was taught by Paul, since Paul appears in chapter 9. But where is the exchange between Paul and Peter? Where is it discussed that Paul set the other apostles “straight”?
        
        And where does it say he was saved before he was baptized? Getting the Holy Spirit and being saved are not the same things (check it out). If he was saved, why be baptized?
        
        Back to sister Degarmo’s original point: where is the “sinner’s prayer”? Where does the Bible ever say the words that are so common among Calvinistic teachers today: “accept Jesus into your heart to be saved”?
        
        Don’t feel compelled to respond; we’ve gone as far as we can go with this. I hope you come to the truth at some point in your life; I really do.
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      - Mark
        9 years ago
        ok last go and I’m done. thank you for your efforts.
        
        You didn’t answer the question because you didn’t admit that Peter never mentioned Christ dying for sins in his acts 2 sermon.
        
        Peter was told to do was to go forth and make disciples of all nations baptising… in acts 2 he says be baptised and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter was reluctant to go to Cornelius’ house since he was still keeping the law! Cornelius received the Holy Spirit without water baptism… imagine how Peter felt… it’s NOT supposed to happen this way. He probably shrugged and said “can anyone deny the water for these to be baptised”…
        
        You assume water in all of Paul’s writings. There are several different types of baptism in the bible. In 1Cor 12:13 Paul says we are baptised BY ONE SPIRIT into the body of Christ. In Romans 6 Paul says all of us who have ‘been baptised into Christ’. Water baptism means being immersed in water… is Christ water? No, this is a spiritual thing, not physical.
        
        Re: sinner’s prayer, I agree. The good news for today is believe that Jesus died for your sins on the cross and rose again.
        
        Ah so you are adding confession to what you have to do be saved aswell? I understand. The gospel I used to tell people was believe, repent, confess, be baptised and then live for Jesus. That’s not the gospel for today. That is a works based gospel. Salvation is a gift.
        
        Lastly, it’s not clear what John the Baptist meant but certainly the twelve didn’t understand that Jesus came to die and in 3 days will rise. Luke 18
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      - David
        9 years ago
        I did answer that: My exact words — did Peter say in Acts 2, “Christ died for your sins”? Not with those exact words; but he says he died, was raised and was exalted and when they asked “what must we do?” he said they are to be baptized in HIS NAME for forgiveness of sins.” Why “forgiveness of sins” if the gospel he just preached didn’t provide for forgiveness of sins?
        
        [I don’t think you ever responded to that question]
        
        What I did’t respond to is your assumption that because he didn’t use those exact words that, ergo, he didn’t teach forgiveness of sins in Christ, which is the gospel. But I did respond; I just don’t agree with your take on this, at all. Never heard it from anyone else, either; I’ll give you that — it’s original.
        
        Peter “probably shrugged”??!! Wow, Mark, come on. That’s eisegesis.
        
        Water baptism was common and fits in all the passages where Paul wrote about it. “Is Christ water?” Are you serious? To be baptized into Christ is to be united with Christ and to die with Christ, as Romans 6 plainly teaches.
        
        So, you’re saying that what Paul in Romans 10:9-10 was in error? Please interpret because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.”
        
        Looks like you’re setting Paul against Paul.
        
        And what John the Baptist is really, really clear if you have any understanding of the OT at all. Everyone knew what happened to lambs under the law. Everyone knows that the apostles did not “get it” when Jesus told them what was going to happen in the future. But your argument is that Peter didn’t even know that AFTER Jesus “opened their minds to understand the Scriptures” (Lk. 24:45) and AFTER he and the others were baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4).
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      - Dana
        8 years ago
        Seeing you both bicker hurts my heart. I wish you both could see that you are on the same team, and focus on the true enemy- the one that seeks to destroy lives and families. We ARE the Christian family. Regardless of the views on the little things. Remember the TRUE enemy.
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Dana, I appreciate your emphasis on love, but Mark and I are not “bickering” and we are not on the same team. There is only one gospel and Mark argues for “another gospel.” It’s certainly not loving — either to Mark or those reading this blog — to allow his statements to stand.
        
        Jude said he would have liked to talk about “our common salvation” but found it necessary “to write appealing appealing to you to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3-4). “The faith” is equivalent to the gospel that was preached. There are NOT two gospels; that’s a perversion of God’s plan, and teaching that there are “different gospels” (Gal. 1:6-7), the second one, presumably (“Paul’s gospel”) eliminating the need for baptism, is false teaching. Mark accuses the apostle Peter of ignorance and pits Paul against Peter and that’s absurd. It would be impossible to have unity on that point.
        
        We are not “judging others on how they quote verses” (note that in Mark’s initial argument he didn’t quote verses; he referred us to an article online written by someone else). We are to be discerning, not naive, not “tossed about by every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14). We must make a judgment about what individuals teach when that teaching is contrary to the gospel. That’s why the letter to the Galatians was written. And Paul himself said, “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.” Romans 16:17.
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      - Jeff
        8 years ago
        Oh, and David, just want to say that I appreciate your sound words, and I agree with you.
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        Hi David! Now I understand your coldness… since you believe I am promoting a false gospel.. the same one that Paul says in 1Cor15! 🙂
        
        I never accused Peter of ignorance. Some things simply had not been revealed to Him that were later revealed to Paul. The the body of Christ being one example!
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      - David
        8 years ago
        It’s about truth. Jude said to “earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (v. 4). “The faith” is the body of doctrine taught and once-for-all delivered to the saints.
        
        You mistake “earnestness” with “coldness.” I try to stay above judging the attitude and heart of the other person in these kinds of exchanges (which is what you just did). We all know that these kind of communications cannot properly convey feelings and attitudes. So, don’t judge me, just answer the questions — I feel they are fair. I’m sure you are a nice person and you’d find me to be the same. But this is important and we are earnestly contending — that’s all. It’s not about being cold or hot, it’s about the truth. The only thing I’m assuming is that you are open to the truth. You haven’t shown me that your view of this fits with all of Scripture; instead, you choose those Scriptures that fit your view.
        
        I do feel you are teaching falser doctrine. Correct me if I’m wrong: you are teaching that the ONLY thing you believe has any application to us today are SOME of the words of Paul. Cite one Scripture that says, suggests or implies that we are to disregard everything but what you have decided constitutes the gospel. How would you describe “sound doctrine”? Do you believe that we are obligated to live by “sound doctrine” or is that optional? Does that have any bearing on our salvation, or not? Paul said we will all stand before the judgment seat of God and give an account of things done in the body, whether good or evil (II Corinthians 5:10). He included himself. What are “things done in the body”?
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      - Dana Littau
        8 years ago
        It’s all one team. It’s us against him. 🙂 Do you believe Jesus Christ died on the cross in order to save you from your horrible, wretched sinner self? Yes? Do you love our Lord and have a relationship with him? Yes? Then have a childlike faith and quit getting caught up in the pointless bickering of fools. Remember the TRUE enemy. The harvest is plenty- but the workers are few. Have a Christlike love for each other- will you David and Mark? Even your mothers knew well enough to give you biblical names- let’s NOT play into this petty worlds version of right and wrong. You BOTH should spend a little time in prayer PRAYING for EACH OTHER. Yes PRAYING for each other. I’ve tried it myself- and it’s truly miraculous what happens when you have a conversation with our Lord and have been adjusted by the Holy spirit about some one you so disagree with. Prayers to you both.
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Dana, why do you insert yourself into this discussion without commenting on the substance of it. Mark and I could both just “let it go” but I assume Mark feels as strongly about his position as I do, so he continues to contend for it. I’m sorry it makes you uncomfortable but not everyone who believes in Jesus is “on the same team.” I beg to differ that this is “the pointless bickering of fools” (that wasn’t very nice, ?). This goes to the heart of the gospel. I believe Mark is being deceived by that “enemy” you keep referring to and, apparently, he feels I am.
        
        You can’t just sit on the sidelines and demand unity when there is none. Where do you see that attitude in the Bible? Why was Paul so harsh with the Galatians (1:6, etc)? I can imagine someone in a Galatian church saying that “we are all on the same team; let’s just get along.” I don’t think that would have deterred Paul one bit.
        
        I always choose very carefully what hill I’m willing to die on; the true gospel, as taught by Jesus, Peter, the writer of Hebrews AND Paul is a hill worry dying on, don’t you agree? And I do pray that Mark will see the truth. He seems like an earnest young man who loves God.
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        David, what is the gospel?
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      - Dana Littau
        8 years ago
        “Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.”
        ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:2-3‬
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Dana — unity of the Spirit is something we “keep” or “maintain” — not manufacture or create ourselves. Unity requires “standing firm in one spirit with one mind side by side for the faith of the gospel” (Philippians 1:27). How can we have unity when we don’t even agree on what the gospel is? We must speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15) but being firm, forthright and honest is not unloving — don’t we do that with our children? Paul said, “Do I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?” (Gal. 4:16).
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        Amen Dana and I appreciate your input on this thread. God bless you
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      - nancy ellis
        8 years ago
        becoming a christian is not hard. Jesus made it simple, anyone reading the scriptures can KNOW that they have to be immersed to get their sins washed away. that is unless someone gets to them and tells them their version. we don;t have to DIG to get the meaning of what to do to be saved.
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  - Dana
    8 years ago
    Not as eloquent with my words as some that I’ve been reading here- but quite simply, have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Yearn for Him. Talk to him DAILY, hourly, every second you can. That’s how one is saved. You aren’t saved by how many verses you can quote, how many deeds you have done, whether you have or haven’t been baptized- just plain and simple- have a relationship with Jesus Christ. I know you know this- I’m hoping that someone who NEEDS to know this stumbles upon this post too.
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    - Jeff
      8 years ago
      Another way to describe the gospel is that one must be in a covenant relationship with God through Jesus: a true peace with God based on the terms He set. At issue here is, how do I enter through the narrow way that leads to life? Jesus said “few there be that find it.”To “seek” implies a diligent search, and there is too much at stake. Mark is following a false prophet. Read Matthew 7:13f. Should we not try to help him?
      
      The “good news” describes God’s peace plan. Hebrews 10:16-24. We covenant with God through the blood of Jesus, who is our high priest. We “draw near to God with a true heart in full assurance by faith(which comes by hearing the word and repenting of our former life), having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water (baptism), let ushold fast the profession of our faith (confession), without wavering (stay faithful). This I the terms of the covenant, which, if we brake it, vs. 26-27 there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgement and fiery indignation…” Therefore I reprove, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering,that I might save a sinner from being deceived and save a soul from death.
      
      The words of the covenant we must write on our hearts in glowing words that guide our steps through this deceitful world, to remain on the narrow path. Hidden in our hearts, that we might not sin against the Shepherd of our souls – Jesus.
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        It seems you are basing your salvation on your works… ‘repenting’, ‘staying faithful to the end’ etc
        
        But Paul says in Romans 4:3-6 that God justifies those who do not work but believe in Him who justifies the ungodly. Paul quotes Genesis 15:5.
        
        You quote Jesus about the narrow gate. But Jesus wasn’t speaking to you. He wasn’t even sent to you at that time… He was sent to the jews only Matthew 15:24. But the bible says that Paul was sent to the gentiles and you should listen to him.
        
        If you are going to base your salvation on Jesus teachings in the gospel’s then why don’t you also go and sell everything that you have so that you can be perfect?
        
        Did Jesus Christ, the dear Son of God die for ALL your sins or not? Do you think you can add to Jesus’s perfect sacrifice? You can’t do anything to save yourself but entrust yourself to God and believe in His finished work. You cannot save yourself. Salvation is a free gift Romans 3:23,6:23! Do you have to pay for a free gift? Or do you have to pay to keep it?
        
        As for the book of Hebrews we don’t even know who wrote it and also it was written to the hebrews not to you. Paul has told us what we need to do. We need to believe that Jesus died for our sins. That’s it. Hallelujah! What a Saviour! He has done it all.
        
        I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes – Romans 1:16
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Got it, Mark. Your faith is entirely in Paul — not Jesus, not Peter, not any of the rest of the NT. I believe everything Paul said because he was inspired by the Holy Spirit — including his words about baptism and presenting our bodies as instruments of righteousness (is that a work?) and his statement that “with the mouth confession is made to salvation” in chapter 10 (you never responded to that). No one is saved by “works” because works require perfect performance and we all fall short of God’s glory and can never earn our way into heaven. But that’s a far cry from asserting that God just saves everyone and that we have no part in it.
        
        I believe Paul, but I also believe everything Peter, James, the writer of Hebrews and certainly what Jesus said. On your theory re: audience, then nothing Paul wrote was to YOU, either. It was to the Romans — are you living in Rome? Or Galatia? Or Ephesus?
        
        You have an impossible problem in your attempt to base your whole theory of salvation only in what Paul said, not only because he’s not the only inspired writer of the New Testament but also because he doesn’t agree with your theory of salvation. The only way you can make him agree with you is to explain away every statement he made that has any “work” in it.
        
        If you want to go passage-by-passage in Paul, email me at dpaulposey@mac.com, and I’ll be happy to take the challenge. We need to get off this blog since this has gone far afield from where we started.
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        My faith is in Jesus and His finished work.. this is based on the gospel given to Paul by revelation from Jesus Christ Gal 1:12
        
        I believe Paul’s words about baptism.. he doesn’t mention water.. but he does mention the Spirit. Paul says there is one baptism.
        
        Paul says present your bodies as a living sacrifice which is true worship (not a worship service!). But that is not for salvation. Confession of Jesus Christ as Lord not confessing your sins daily.
        
        Hang on, you say we are not saved by works but then you say that is a far cry from we having no part in it. Which is it? Paul is clear we just need to believe in what God has already done. Fruit will come from that. We can’t earn our salvation, that is extremely clear from Paul’s writings.
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Mark — We’re getting nowhere. I will ask, where is “spirit” (pneuma) in Romans 6:1-7? Oh, it’s not there. And what did the Eunuch see (Acts 8)? Water or the Spirit? You have not even tried to explain Romans 6:1-7 except to assert that it’s spirit baptism, with no evidence for that —not even the staunchest Calvinists believe that. They at least attempt to explain these passages away because they know they refer to water baptism.
        
        If you want to discuss this further, email me, we’ll go passage-by-passage. I don’t feel it makes sense to clog this blog with this discussion any longer. Others are probably not all that interested, or they feel we are “bickering.”
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        David, I have said that I believe the gospel is most clearly stated in 1Cor15:1-4… but you say that I am promoting a false gospel. So I ask, what is the good news and what must a person do to be saved? That is all.
        
        Thank you
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Here’s the interesting thing to me, Mark. You say that faith only is what is required, but the Bible never says that. In fact, I can ask you: is faith a work? If not, why not? Is it necessary to OBEY or not? Can one be saved without obedience? I believe faith includes, by necessity, a complete truth and commitment to God. Did any of those commended by faith in Hebrews 11 “just believe”?
        
        I Corinthians 15:1-4 does not say, “just believe.” It says the gospel saves, which of course, I believe 100% (Romans 1:16-17). What it doesn’t say is that we are saved by faith only. We both believe that the gospel saves. But you say that it saves simply because you believe it; I say the gospel saves when we obey it. Because that’s what Paul said. Read on:
        
        Why did Paul write the letter to the Romans? Listen to Paul himself — “…and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations.” (Rom 1:4-5).
        What is “obedience of faith”?
        
        “…obedience, which leads to righteousness?But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed” (Romans 6:17) — What is “obedience to that standard of teaching”?
        
        “But they have not all OBEYED the gospel” (Romans 10:16). What did they not obey?
        
        And listen to how Paul closes his letter to the Romans:
        Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.
        
        Again, I ask, but I doubt you’ll answer: what is obedience of faith? Can you be saved without obedience? Where does the Bible say that we are saved by a faith that excludes work?
        
        For the record, I believe our work displays our faith, as James teaches; we are not saved by our work — that would require perfect work. But a faith that refuses to work is no better than the demon’s “faith” — James 2:19.
        
        Nowhere in this discussion have I ever said that we in any way can earn our salvation by work. That’s impossible, as Romans 1-3 clearly says. But to say that faith somehow is by itself is to contradict the very words of the brother of Jesus, James, who said “faith, being by itself, is dead.” Baptism is not a work that saves, but a trusting response to the grace of God. In that sense, “baptism now saves you…” (I Peter 3:21). Where does it say, “faith alone now saves you?” And if you say that Peter was taking about baptism in the Spirit, first I would ask, “does Spirit baptism save you?” — it can’t be the Spirt, though; look at the context (it corresponds to Noah being saved through water).
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      - Mark
        8 years ago
        Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.
        
        So what about those who say that we are not justified by faith alone but need to add our works, does God justify them? From my experience faith+works is a bad foundation. Funnily enough, that is what Roman Catholics believe… faith + works for salvation.
        
        Paul quotes from Genesis 15:
        And behold, the word of the Lord came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.” And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
        
        Faith is not a work. In this dispensation, faith is simply believing what God has done on the cross.
        
        Good works are a fruit coming from a saving faith. Good works cannot save. Only faith in Jesus Christ and His work can save. Only Jesus’s work is good enough for God!
        
        As to the obedience of faith. I think it means the obedience that comes from faith. Paul says that eternal life is a free gift.
        
        James and Paul contradict. The book of James was written ‘To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations’.. that’s not us.
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Was Romans written to you? It says, “to the saints at Rome.” Are you a “saint in Rome?” How convenient to just dismiss the book of James. And you never addressed any of the other Scriptures that I cited. So there’s nothing more to talk about.
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      - David
        8 years ago
        Mark, have you ever read this?
        And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. Acts 15:7-9
        
        What was the word of the gospel the Gentiles heard from Peter? Just curious.
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- Mark
  9 years ago
  O and also what is the gospel?
  
  Thank you kindly
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nancy ellis
8 years ago
seems to me that mark has his mind made up, and so do I. so i just spoke my thoughts and will leave it at that.
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Dana
8 years ago
We should all get one thing straight- there are 2 sides in this world- Christ’s side, and Satan’s side. What Satan would LIKE is for us to be divided as a family. But we need to remember and ALWAYS keep in mind that it is not Christian against Christian- regardless of who thinks who’s gospel is the correct one. Our job as brothers and sisters In Christ is to bring others to know him. Not to judge other denominations on how well they quote verses. In the end- remember the goal. The goal is NOT heaven- that is a reward. The GOAL is pleasing God and letting as many people know of his love as we can while we are here and have the chance. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few. Blessing to you all.
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